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Jove disease caused by sleepers?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.06 16:17:00 - [1] Edited by: Eventy One on 06/07/2010 16:19:58 In this post, CCP Dropbear all but says players have not yet unraveled the full story of wh space. At first I thought perhaps he was merely being cryptic - but then I looked at the evidence. Pottsey noticed that there were alternate sources of in-game information about the sleepers in wormhole space, new in-game mechanics for learning about the backstory. There apparently was purpose behind what was revealed (such as the meaning of sleeper words). In this thread, Terrus Valkin noticed an atypical cosmic anomaly called a quarantine zone that produced unusual notices in local (recall that even players are not visible in local in wh space). In the image of the quarantine zone that Terrus Valkin posted you can clearly see a gas cloud emanating from the sleeper structure. From the novel Empyrean age, we know the Jove were interested in the Jove Gate. We also know from Pottsey's work in wh space the sleepers were to. Recently Sansha's nation was found to have captured a Jove ship in the gateway entrance to the Eve gate system (New Eden). All of this makes me wonder if the Jove weren't first at war with the sleepers, or the sleepers responsible for the Jovian disease in the first place. (This is, of course, pure speculation without further input from players - but it is interesting speculation!) Is anybody else working on this?
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.06 16:27:00 - [2] Originally by: Plumpy McPudding Places finger under your nose Does this smell like butt to you? And other bodily odours, I'd rather not say, or else your pvp buddies might start thinking differently of you. Please troll elsewhere.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.06 16:39:00 - [3] Originally by: Abrazzar My hypothesis was that the Jove ... What's your take on CCP Dropbear's suggestion that player's haven't fully discovered all there is to discover about wh space? Is there still story to be discovered? (that is in fact discoverable)
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.06 16:50:00 - [4] Originally by: Stu Pendis**** Warning! SPOILER ALERT! What isn't common knowledge is that there is a wormhole entrance to Jove space. It is in a C6 wormhole currently held by one of the large alliances in the game. So far, it is the only known route, and said alliance is keeping it under tight wraps for very obvious reasons. Nothing is available in the Jove hole.............yet. I was called in to explore that WH due to perfect astrometrics skills, and my well known association with Magellan Exploration and Survey (Eve's only corp dedicated to finding Jove space). It turns out said WH is actually the image backdrop, of a blackhole system. There are many blackhole systems in C6 wh space. That is why it current goes no-where.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.06 17:51:00 - [5] Originally by: Abdiel Kavash Move to RP area, or pics or didn't happen. If we weren't talking Out of Game - I'd agree, but we're not. The discussion is entirely OOC, out of Game.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.06 19:51:00 - [6] Originally by: Salria Usenheart Jove disease was caused by them modifying themselves to the point where they lost control of their basic instincts, it still effects them to this day. Sleepers as far as we know were designed by the Talocan race. Human species werent the first in this part of the universe, we dont know if how much was known about these ancient races before the collapse of the Eve Gate, but we do know that Joves knew about wormholes and t3 tech long before the 4 playable races did, as they survived the collapse of the eve gate, and recovered quicker and already had an ancient functioning gate system to use instead of having to design one from a broken one or wreckage and so advanced much quicker. What secrets then, do you suspect the sleepers are harbouring?
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.08 13:19:00 - [7] Edited by: Eventy One on 08/07/2010 13:19:41 Originally by: Gecko O'Bac So, my conclusions... The Precursors (that's the name I'm going to use for the moment) were most probably at war (or at least under attack) by a force that used bioweapons of astounding lethality against them. They were not able to fight the disease, at least not in time to save their race from extinction, so they decided to try a double gamble: first, they made researches in the cryogenics field, to preserve their race in stasis while the second part of the gamble took place. For the second part they created an highly evolved artificial intelligence, based on multiple remotely interacting agents, which was given the ability to defend and reproduce itself and that was tasked with finding the cure to the disease, and then, I guess, revive their masters. This AI evolved into what we know as Sleeper Drones, and the Precursor race itself became the "Sleeper" race, since they are all in stasis. I think you've made a good case - and with the exception of a few points, generally there's a bunch of us leaning in that direction. I personally find the archive enclave the MOST interesting. I wonder if there isn't merit in training sleeper technology to V, in the odd chance CCPs written in secret value to those technology skillbooks. Originally by: Gecko O'Bac What doesn't fit here with what we know right now? Well first of all Sleeper drones don't seem to be all that bent on research, though, like ants do, it is very possible that they have specialized "worker/thinker" drones and what we see are just the warriors defending the nest. Secondly... Where is the nest? I mean... Where are all the Sleeping Beauties? AFAIK we found no trace of cryogenic stations so either the Precursor enemies killed them for good, or they are still somewhere hidden from sight, waiting to awaken. Or, 2 more possibilities: one, Drones went mad or for whatever reason killed their creators. Two, and I like this most, the drones weren't able to find a cure for the disease and thought that integrating their creators into their networks would provide some kind of way to live on, thus all the Awakened drones and whatever. Perhaps now the Sleeper drones are both the drones and their creators. No way to be sure so far though... Lets assume the sleepers have indeed embedded themselves virtually into this artificial intelligence systems, the stasis modules may/may not house what's left of their physical bodies, if they still have physical form. But what I believe that means is that individuals, as we think of individuals, are more like individual synapses in a larger brain. As far as the sleepers are concerned, we don't need to look at them individually to understand them, but collectively to see the whole - and the whole is this complex series of structures that work together in some integrated fashion, that itself defines who/what the artificial intelligence is. The communications enclaves, are thus the glue that allows the 'neuron's to interact. This is like the 'borg' but a living one, rather than a mechanical one. One analogy might be to consider individual computers against a model of networked computers (like a grid). The network is the computer! (The irony here is that the sleepers could be analogous to the EVE cluster itself!) This is the type of dialog we need to continue sharing to un-ravel this thing.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.08 20:57:00 - [8] Originally by: khazak mokl The point of all this shud be is there anything at the end of the seach besides getting the timeline and events in a proper chronological order. I mean the other COSMOS missions have lootz at the end. Would CCP Dropbear care to comment? Well there is that .. but more so - these clues are really aweful subtle ... annnnddd ... the vastness of wormhole space, and unpredictability of wormhole connections means that finding clues ingame, in a systematic way is next to impossible. If there really is more to find, having loot drops provide clue, or support for in game mechanics to better navigate wh space(so we can have some chance of targeting specific wh systems for example) may make finding the clues more probable. Otherwise CCP is going to have to use the 'live events' to ensure the clues are at least accessible.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.08 21:22:00 - [9] Edited by: Eventy One on 08/07/2010 21:27:32 Originally by: Mithfindel The Takmahl are considered to be a sect that once belonged to the Amarr Empire. They were declared heretics and destroyed. The Blood Raiders seem to revere them. However, they are not any more ancient than the "current" empires. I've seen this argument a couple of times in the last few days. My Eve lore is pretty good, but I'm thinking I'm missing something in the Takmahl history (I all but edited this out of the Eve Wiki article on the Takkmahl on that basis). Now, I've not run the Amarr COSMOS missions and I know something of the history of the Takmahl is covered there, but if you know other places where I can track the Takmahl lore, I'd apprciate it.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.09 18:31:00 - [10] Edited by: Eventy One on 09/07/2010 18:31:23 Originally by: Auwnie Morohe I think the monolith proves W-space is new eden in another time. Quote: The word derives from the Latin word monolithus from the Greek word μονόλιθος (monolithos), derived from μόνος ("one" or "single") and λίθος ("stone"). There's the monolith, and then there is that statue on top of the floating debris that points off in some direction. (Someone told me once, they all point to the same point in space). I suppose the question is - there's clearly a lot of interest in this subject - what's our strategy for figuring it out?

Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.11 07:32:00 - [11] My bet is that the Sansha's are re-animated 'sleepers'. I base this on the report ISHAEKA-0016 which classifies the sleeper culture as a 'download culture'. Sansha's use implants. Sleepers are master of virtual reality. What if they are trying to break back out of their Virtual Reality?
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.12 07:43:00 - [12] Here's proof drones in empire are busy working on a Jovian battle station. What you say? Pics ... or it didn't happen! Ok.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.12 13:03:00 - [13] Originally by: Jowen Datloran Nice find. It is quite clear that the texture on these two parts are exactly the same. But from this angle the two structures looking nothing alike. On the Jove station the spikes goes away from the central structure while on the drone structure the spikes point towards a gaping hole on the middle of the structure. I agree .. mostly. I think the reason for the difference is the drone structure is under construction. The parts that were done were strikingly similar to the Jove battle-station, except glowing blood red rather than neon green. The textures were close, not exact, but the shapes (the mesh) were dead on (save for the incomplete bottom).
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.12 14:12:00 - [14] Edited by: Eventy One on 12/07/2010 14:12:55 Originally by: Raydn James dude, your armor... [sorry, had too] You try taking on hundreds of drones in only a frigate! (Well ... OK ... maybe not hundreds ... but at least 30!) Notice what the showinfo says for the drone construct: This gigantic superstructure was built by the effort of thousands of rogue drones. While the structure appears to be incomplete, its intended shape remains a mystery to the cluess carbon-baed lifeforms.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.12 16:12:00 - [15] Edited by: Eventy One on 12/07/2010 16:17:50 Originally by: Ebisu Kami Do I really have to point out that gigantic gaping hole right in the middle, where the actual main-body of the Jove-station would be? Really all that looks even remotely similar are those pylons and they could very well just be scrap-parts salvaged by the rogue drones, from a long lost and abandoned Jove-Station. Before you do - please read the description of the item again. Let me help: IT IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION!!! Items under construction, generally ARE NOT FINISHED. I don't disagree that the drones could merely be using Jove technology (rather than building a station) but that also raises the obvious question where did they get that technology in the first place in empire? Do you happen to know of any other Jove battle-stations in empire? What about old Jove scrap heaps?
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.12 17:05:00 - [16] Originally by: Ebisu Kami Jove plotting with Rogue-drones and showing them how to build "obvious" Jove-stations right in the eyesight of everyone, doesn't really stand Okham's Razor. Woah! The argument is not that the Jove are plotting with rogue drones. No one made that assertion. I made the assertion the Drones were building a Jovian station. I provided pics. Your assertion was that they looked nothing alike. I and others have pointed out that they look remarkably alike. Lets not set up a staw-man to argue against.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.12 17:20:00 - [17] Originally by: Ebisu Kami Then give me one sensible reason, why, according to your interpretation, rogue-drones are building a Jove Space Station. Like all story lines involving the drones I wouldn't presume to know their motivations. I know simply that they are either building a Jovian station, or they are building a hive using a Jovian station. Either of those scenarios are intriguing.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.13 03:53:00 - [18] Originally by: Gecko O'Bac While on this specific matter I do agree, please restrain yourself: on other matters (namely, the sleepers), the background is much more consistent and the hints are intentional, like it's been stated many times by different devs. Once again, unless we find any info from other sources that can lead us to think that the model is not JUST that, a reused model with no obscure meaning, I beg you all to leave it there and get back to Sleeper thing. I'd love to know how you know which 'clues' are intentional and which ones aren't.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.13 13:43:00 - [19] Originally by: Pottsey According to the recent rogue drone chronicle in Eon the drones are experimenting on humans. They have labs and chamber after chamber of humans to test with. Keeping those humans alive requires a suitable gravity-environment and atmosphere to survive. The drones have also been building/cloning human bodyÆs to walk amongst us. In the story one of the Characters pretty much said everything we know about rogue drones is out-dated and wrong right before a drone I think downloaded its self into her body. Now that's just frightening. And the behavior of 'downloading oneself into a human body, is reminiscent of both Sansha's and the sleepers. I don't get EON. Where they 'normal', 'run-of-the-mill' drones in this story? Behaviors such as this certainly do suggest that there is more to the drones we see all the time.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.13 13:59:00 - [20] Edited by: Eventy One on 13/07/2010 14:00:53 Originally by: Abrazzar There is this 'New Frontier' mission line (lvl3) that has some human professor living around rogue drones and later becoming one of them by turning into some kind of nano-goo, infecting other ships. Maybe they're not trying to download into people but upload people into the hive. This is interesting. Where do you find this mission? We all have our theories, and of course we won't know until we know. My own theory is that the sleepers, who were experts in virtual reality (from COSMOS data) are trapped in their virtual reality. Notice that the re-emergence of Sansa's has only happened after re-exposure to the sleepers? No Sansha's is an imperfect mix of man/machine. If the sleepers are indeed trapped in virtual reality, and wished to escape, what would be the perfect platform to re-emerge alive from a virtual reality? Perhaps a dormant Sansha slave, with enough computing power to take the download, and enough humanity, to escape a virtual reality prison. As far as the normal drones are concerned, I know they were created by the Gallente (chronicles), but we don't know how they became sentient (other than an 'accident'). One possibility, (fraught with problems perhaps), may be that sentience may have been given to them by sleepers. This last idea would require that we explain how sleepers were able to access k-space prior to the opening up of the wormholes. Here there be dragons. Even so CCP Dropbears cryptic comments have fueled much of this debate/speculation, and so a little latitude is warranted until we obtain further clues. (*CCP Dropbear, if you're reading this, this should be taken as a clue from the players to GET ON WITH DROPPING MORE CLUES*)

Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.14 06:55:00 - [21] Originally by: Saul Dhampir It was suggested in these theads that there was a similarity between the Talocan and ancient American societies, in particular about the use of slaves: ôAmidst the ruins of this Talocan outpost, the exchange depot looms, its presence foreboding. Judging from the wreckage inside, the depot was either used for imprisonment or cultural exchange; eerily, there seems to be very little difference between the two. Whatever its purpose, this structure is rather prevalent among the outposts, displaying its importance in Talocan society.ö Which is interesting because this idea has gone around and come back again - that the ancient races are just different names for the modern ones. I may be wrong but the region that seems to produce the most ancient Talocan items was the Minmatar COSMOS site. Similarly, the Yan Jung items are found in Gallente Space, Takmahl technology found in Araz (Amarr) leaving the sleepers for the Caldari COSMOS site.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.15 19:28:00 - [22] Originally by: Auwnie Morohe Jowen I totally agree with you. And although CCP wont tell you that you have solved a piece of the puzzle CCP Dropbear almost literally said that the game will and it will give you a little more enigma to follow like it did with Asbalon. Secretly Im hoping there are some nice sleeper drone or Talocan BPOs at the end of this but probably not. On the drone thing. There is in Gallente cosmos an agent that is a drone and it lives in one of those silos. It used to be a Jove but last time i checked it was part of ORE. It is a level 1 missions but you need to take out a mother drone so bring something that can meaning serous DPS. Also it lives somewhere at a moon so you need to look for it. She still IS Jove. She WORKS for ORE. But see, this is exactly it .. Jowen says that each player has their own theories, while ignoring the other bits as inconsequential. CCP Dropbear says players haven't figured it out. THIS IS EXACTLY WHY WE NEED DIALOGUE. If there is a puzzle hidden within in-game content, and players tend to ignore stuff as inconsequential, talking about it in the forums, between players, will convince some, that an item they thought was consequential was not. Here's an example. In game there is a Sansha's agent who IS Jovian. In the Jove channel, (like more than a year ago) I use to ponder that tid-bit, and was constantly told - it is not important. Likewise, there is an unreachable Jove agent who likewise has standings with Sansha's and no other faction. We could look up on these clues as meaningless, but given recent in-game news events - its nearly impossible to conclude anything other than CCP has been planning this business for a while now. There are still other clues - that are deemed inconsequential. Why is there a Jove working for the Angels for example? Or Serpentis? This purpose of this thread was originally to see if we couldn't find some way to get these threads all on the table to be seen by all, and get dialog going. If CCP Dropbears not pulling our legs - I would personally love to contribute to solving that puzzle.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey THAT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.15 20:53:00 - [23] Originally by: Pottsey Like I said though, if we get other, DIFFERENT things that point in this direction then I'm all for reviewing my position." Its more than just that one structure Auwnie Morohe reminded me of the Jove looking drones. Why this took me so long to post I have no idea, it just never crossed my mind till now. Not only do we have the drones building a Jove like structure. But we have a drone projecting a Jove imagine when you talk to it with a Jove bloodline description and the drone gives Jove standings if you do a mission for it. It seems to me to be a little more than just asset recycling. Pottsey .. I don't think you've told me about this one ...
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey	Posted - 2010.07.16 14:29:00 - [24] Edited by: Eventy One on 16/07/2010 14:31:39 Originally by: siC0 b0b one of the most interesting posts i've read since i've started playing tbh, good read eventy Thanks siC0 b0b. People often think EVE is simply about mining .. and Pew Pew - and it is. But that isn't all it is. EVE also has a rich, evolving, sometimes flawed, but always interesting lore. Little credit goes to the content people who create this lore, when they slave away on thankless work ensuring our missions have story's few of us read. I think they treat themselves to the occasional in-game easter egg; as well they should. A bunch of us in the Jove channel and others, already spent a great deal of time finding those little in-game easter eggs CCP employees added, (I suspect often for their own amusement) as yet another play style. Recently, they've taken it further by better integrating storyline, in-game content and re-introducing live events. Backstory is arguably at an all time high. Then comes along a CCP employee who says "We've not discovered all there is to discover in Eve". WHAT?! This suggests that hiding content for players to find and piece together has become an established part of the norm. It's awefully subtle. From this thread .. I don't think it is fair to see we have YET established this as fact. It is still possible CCP Dropbear is having fun with us. But I hope that's not true, for it really is motivational to play to piece these clues together.

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